A podcast for new atheists, lifetime atheists, ex-evangelicals, truth-seekers, and free-thinkers
Mt. 7:15-16a (NRSV)
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.
Your own book lays it out for you and yet Kat Kerr can still get four thousand views a day. And Greg Locke is still out there asserting his rightness and people are still listening.
And in this episode we're talking about modern prophets, many of whom are so completely around the bend that even other evangelicals (evangelical leaders no less) can't deal with their levels of batshit... or bullshit. We'll be looking at the two biggest current hot-button issues in prophecy and seeing how they match up to what most of us learn about the nature of prophecy from the average evangelical pastor.
But first... Mike Lindell's rantings and Jim Bakker's blankets, dressing in ways that won't make the boys spank it... why tell two stories when you can tell three? Welcome to Christians behaving badly!
So this time around we are talking about self-proclaimed prophets who just keep dropping the ball and yet continue finding an audience for their stupidity in alarmingly large circles within evangelicalism. For starters, it's important to level the playing field from the beginning. Just like any other so-called “spiritual” phenomenon, prophecy isn't a real thing. It never has been. It never will be. That said, I can absolutely see how people in the bronze age could be duped into believing in it.
When you're dealing with a bunch of people who are largely illiterate, it isn't easy to pull the literary wool over their eyes. To any sane, reasonable person, the reason why so many Old Testament “prophecies” come true in the New is very simple: when they wrote the New Testament, they wrote the fulfillments to the OT prophecies into it. It seems so elementary, but when you're dealing with people who take the Bible literally (thinking that everything chronicled in it actually, factually, literally happened), it's not that simple.
Real prophets vs. False prophets [ad lib]
The litmus test of a true prophet – they're always right
I was taught to be skeptical of false prophets, oddly enough
Careful who you listen to – hold them accountable
I was taught these things and I heard them from multiple sources. That means that in as much as everything they say is, by definition cuckoo, even evangelical pastors have limits to the degrees of cuckoo they'll actually endorse or embrace. A case in point is evangelical radio host Michael Brown. In a NY Times article Christian Prophets on the Rise – What Happens When They're Wrong? he said, “In my lifetime — 49 years as a follower of Jesus — I’ve never seen this level of interest in prophecy, and it’s unfortunate, because it’s an embarrassment to the movement.” source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/us/christian-prophets-predictions.html
This guy would get along well with the pastors and spiritual leaders that taught me which further solidifies in my head that there are plenty of people out there – clergy in particular – who may be taken in by the concept of prophecy and still not afford it carte blanche in the accountability department, or, more to the point, lack thereof.
And while I'm sure there are also plenty of astoundingly stupid, brain-addled, and just slightly daft pastors endorsing the myriad of false prophets out there, that isn't how most modern “prophets” amass their followings. Most circumvent the pulpit and go directly after their target demographics through other means. Most of them are TV or internet preachers, buying airtime or cultivating social media audiences, and using the same emotionalism and sensationalism that is signature to all evangelical messaging to capture the attention of the average pew-sitter and start the all important process of building relationships and gaining trust.
Now, you're probably thinking, “But if they're wrong, doesn't that kill the trust aspect of things?” It should, shouldn't it? But it doesn't. Why? Because they know the psychology of their audience and they play right into their hands.
They admit they were wrong
They act disappointed and apologize
They come up with their reasons
They capitalize on their own fallibility
They encourage trusting God to act and to give them clarity, even encouraging people to pray for them to get the proverbial “double portion” of God's anointing
They swear they'll get it right next time, and when they don't...
They admit they were wrong... and so on.
Why does it work? How can these people be wrong over and over and over again and still watch their bank accounts grow? Why do people still trust them? Well, what do all of the above communicate to the faithful? All of those points shine a spotlight on the prophet's humanity.
And it's a huge and inescapable point of relatability that every single person listening on shares with the “prophet.” When they're wrong, they plead, “I'm only human. I'll do better next time,” and people accept it. Let's not forget that although so few of them practice it as a general rule, Christians are conditioned to champion forgiveness and they're more willing to give it to one of their own... if that person is - or seems to be - in possession of something they want.
Our comments going forward will center primarily on the two current cash cows in false prophecy: COVID and Trump. Different themes emerge at different times, like the end times and the rapture/return of christ. Those two are huge. Right now it's all about pandemics and politics, but like we pointed out a couple weeks back, everything old is new again.
Politics and social issues have never been immune from the prophecy treatment, and that means all the way back to biblical times. Prophets have always preyed upon one concept more than any other. That concept, I think, is a little thing called hope.
Hope, as Morgan Freeman once adeptly narrated, is a dangerous thing. People cling to it. They hope for the return of Christ and that hope makes them gravitate toward “prophets” who promise that it will happen in their lifetime. They want Donald Trump to be president again, so they flock to “prophets” who claim over and over and over again that somehow Donald Trump will be back in office and Joe Biden will be ousted. They don't have to qualify it. They just have to promise it. And when it doesn't happen, they just make another promise, rinse, repeat.
In a vast majority of cases, that's how it pans out. There are, however, those who have a more visceral response when their “prophet” gets it wrong. Such was the case of Jeremiah Johnson, a self-proclaimed prophet who has made predictions about everything from COVID to Supreme Court appointees and more, but what got him in real trouble was when he tried his hand at prophesying about Donald Trump's re-election.
In Fall 2020, he, “shared a prophetic dream of Mr. Trump stumbling while running the Boston Marathon, until two frail older women emerged from the crowd to help him over the finish line. So when Joseph R. Biden Jr. was certified as the winner of the election, Mr. Johnson had to admit he had let his followers down.“I was wrong, I am deeply sorry, and I ask for your forgiveness,” he wrote in a detailed letter he posted online. “I would like to repent for inaccurately prophesying that Donald Trump would win a second term as the President of the United States.”
He suffered immediate backlash. He received multiple death threats via social media and literally thousands and thousands of emails that he described as “saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry.” He lost significant amounts of funding from his donors and was accused being “a coward, a sellout, and traitor to the Holy Spirit.” OOF!!
Maybe it's fear of this kind of backlash that drives others like Johnson to push back against similar criticisms. An article on Politico.com reports that “instead of apologizing or backtracking, a number of prophets continue to assert that it is God’s will for Trump to be in the White House and that a miraculous reversal is nigh.”
And by “number of prophets” they mean all the pastors and other spiritual leaders who parrot the same basic sentiments, not all (or even most) of whom are actual prophets by definition. But let's not forget that prophecy IS one of the gifts of the spirit and amateur “prophets” are out there delivering “interpretations” to messages in tongues every week in pentecostal churches around the world so, it's a very broad, very thin definition and the practice of it is always based more on repetition than it ever was or will be on inspiration. Even the high-profile ones do little more than parrot each-other while adding their own twisted branding to the message.
The levels vitriol on behalf of “the faithful” that we see surrounding failed prophecies about Donald Trump are unique. I don't think I have to go into another long dissertation about the average demeanor and capacity for reason that the average red-hat wearer possesses or the levels of aggression they are capable of displaying. When I look for information about backlash concerning rapture prophecies, I find words like “disappointed” and “perplexed.” When it comes to Trump prophecies, I find examples like the one above.
The past year in particular has been a circus of failed prophecies between prophecies about COVID and this ineffable notion that the 2020 election is somehow STILL not a done deal.
Of course, no such thing happened and the world experienced a second wave in much the same way, and on a similar timeline, as the Spanish Flu pandemic that started in 1918. I have no doubt that Chuck Pierce wasn't delivering prophecy, just paying attention to history, at least as it applies to the rise and spread of COVID. From that point, he needed a hook, so he took his cues from other evangelical sources and COVID deniers (often the same people) and hopped on the “this will all be over soon” bandwagon.
And, to be fair, federal and state governments weren't exactly quick to admit to the severity of the pandemic. We started out with 2-week stay at home orders that then extended to three weeks, then a month, then six weeks, then two more weeks, and so on and so on... in the meantime, here I am a year later still wearing a mask in the car giving driving lessons. In short, given the information that the public was getting, his prediction seemed safe. If the lockdown was only going to be a few weeks, predicting a 40-day ramp-down on the heels of passover was plausible.
It was a reasonable gamble at the time – and it was nothing more than that. But the plausibility of it did motivate other so-called prophets to follow on Pierce's coattails and either parrot his predictions or make their own, thereby demonstrating the validity of the prediction. Strength in numbers. Either a lot of people will be right and they'll all enjoy a rabid fanbase with wide-open wallets, or they'd be in good company if they were wrong and would be able to direct attention to the fact that they weren't the only ones who missed the mark.
American “prophet” Cindy Jacobs, called for and led a global day of prayer to “contain” COVID 19 in March of 2020. That worked out well, didn't it? But here's the problem – the word-faith crowd gained a tremendous foothold out of it, capitalizing on the concept of total eradication of COVID in a short expanse of time. They seized upon the opportunity to spread their signature brand of stupid that involves things like simply denying the power of a deadly virus and confessing that it has no power over you. This led directly to the widespread denial of the power of the virus that became more secularized to include allegations that it was never a threat to begin with – just a well-organized hoax... with a half-million-plus casualties by the time a vaccine became available.
Denial in the case of both COVID and the Trump election outcome has been a dangerous outgrowth of this growing culture of prophecy without accountability. The completely unpredictable outcomes of both were easy targets for would-be prophets, for all the reasons I just described. But the arguably nonsensical loyalty of those who keep their sights set on false prophets is the result of psychological bondage that can be, and is, often used to keep people in a specific and very toxic headspace.
When COVID doesn't go away, deny its actual threat level and tell people it'll be over once the Christians experience their own personal Passover. When Biden is sworn in as president, it's a lie of the Devil and God's will is yet to be done. If a prophet makes a mistake, that doesn't mean that this isn't God's will, just that the details are still a little fuzzy.
Aside from the subject of his failed prediction, what did Jeremiah Johnson do wrong that so many people turned on him, really? I think the answer is simple. He ostensibly stopped at stage two of the con: he admitted he was wrong and apologized. He didn't continue the thought through the next logical stages, jabbing at the emotions, points of relatability, and faith of the individual. In short, he wasn't as good a social engineer as most so-called prophets OR he chose, for undisclosed reasons, to deviate from the playbook and try to let the sleeping dog lie.
In the case of the continuation of the Trump presidency, that just wasn't something that was going to happen. The ones that maintain their followings are the ones who are still sticking to their guns and holding out the stick without the carrot to their hapless faithful. And this is NOT a difficult task. After all, we're talking about people who are walking examples of the subjects fawning over the Emperor's New Clothes. Actual reality doesn't mean anything near as much as the one they want.
The “Unusual” Suspects – some of the current performers in the evangelical prophecy circus
As I started thinking about these people and their delivery styles I got this image in my head of a sort of prophetic version of the WWE: all of them extreme caricatures of their own facades, just like pro wrestlers are extreme caricatures of athletes who are really just actors. You have that and you have “prophets” who are really just... cartoonish idiots. With that, let's look at our first idiot... er... “prophet”
“Self-described Christian prophet Johnny Enlow has said that his 'vision' of Republican former President Donald Trump holding a golden scepter [with a golden crown on his head] proves that Trump is still president of the United States.”
“He said the vision was Trump's "PRESENT status from heaven's perspective."
Let the stupid begin. I don't know what bothers me more here – the fact that this person had the audacity to engage in this level of unbelievable bullshit or the fact that I can now see this in my head and it won't go away.
On April 29 of this year, a statement signed by 85 religious leaders called on all modern “prophets” who made public predictions about Trump returning to office by a certain date to APOLOGIZE if that date has come and gone. It was described as a necessary “mature act of love to protect the honor of the Lord, the integrity of prophetic ministry and the faith of those to whom the word was given." Here's what Enlow had to say about that:
"Those who refuse to disagree with God, must now be pressured into accepting the steal, under the guise of 'being humble enough' to admit being wrong. How about 'being humble enough' to keep agreeing with God after even believers and fellow leaders push for abandoning what He has clearly revealed?"
That's actually another way they keep from getting burned at the stake (at least figuratively), isn't it? They play the victim card and they lay it on THICK.
That quote is from a Facebook post from April 30. And there's MORE!
In the same post, he repeatedly references Joe Biden, calling him “the thief” and implicates “the media” as being co-conspirators. Enlow toes the standard evangelical conspiratorial line that Biden stole the election via unprecedented voter fraud. That, of course, proves only that he's one of Trump's lap dogs, just echoing the campaign's assertions of fraud over and over and over to the point where people who are almost as crazy as him are calling for a cease and desist.
Then there's Greg Locke – described by Politico as “A Nashville pastor with a massive social media following” took a very definitive stance on the Trump presidency by stating under no uncertain terms that Trump would, “100 percent remain president of the United States for another term.” This from a YouTube video he uploaded on Nov. 13, 2020.
In a May 18 article in Newsweek, Christina Zhao said, “Controversial pastor Greg Locke said in a fiery speech to congregants that former President Donald Trump did win the 2020 election as he had predicted, but isn't in the White House because it was stolen from him.”
In a video he shared on Twitter Locke basically made one of the most arrogant and stereotypically charlatan moves there is. He actually tried to assert that he was right using some of the most convoluted logic ever. I have to warn you: when I first read this I felt like I lost IQ points so hit that 15 second button twice at least if you don't want it to happen to you. Still here? OK, you are aware of the risks...
"I did predict and I did say that Donald Trump was going to win the presidency of the United States," he told the crowd. "I made the statement that Donald Trump was going to win, right. 100%. I kept saying, 'Yes he is going to remain in the White House.' Everybody said, 'Oh my goodness, he didn't do it, he's a false prophet.'"
He then added: "Now, let me tell you something, if I predict that your team is going to win and you do, but the opposing coach breaks into your house in the middle of the night and steals your trophy, that ain't on me. That don't make me false. That makes them liars and crooks. Amen. That's what it makes them."
I had a wait...WUT? Moment with that one. Not gonna lie. There's a lot there. I mean... just the insult to my intelligence that would have been to me AS AN EVANGELICAL is practically beyond measure. Today? Fuhgedaboudit! It was one of those close the lid, walk away before you THROW the laptop kinds of moments reading that.
Just the audacity of this. “I was right. He won. Just because someone stole the election doesn't make me wrong.” I would love to have access to a cam or a drone... make it a drone... to follow Greg Locke around just so I can see for myself if he's actually that hopelessly narcissistic IRL or if he's just playing a role... you know, like a pro wrestler. The rest of his flaky friends too, for that matter.
This next one... I don't know what it is about her. Maybe it's the raw, unadulterated crazy she emits. Maybe it's the unwaveringly vacant, fixed expression. Maybe it's that I can't say for certain that this woman doesn't have two glass eyes. Or maybe it's the way the stupid just shoots out of my brain and bounces off the walls of my skull clanging like Big Fucking Ben inside my head. Whatever it is, I just find this person... off. Just off.
Let's chat for a minute about Kat Kerr. If we must.
We've talked about her and her stupidity recently. She's the one who claimed that Trump won “by a landslide” and that God told her that Trump would serve as president for eight years. That's for starters. She's also the one who claims to have a picture of angels and demons fighting that she can't find and that there's an ecclesiastical meat locker in heaven stocked with body parts for those who pray hard enough to get them.
Her latest video has 12,000 views in three days. Not that much by YouTube standards but still pretty alarming considering that this is the latest video and her messaging just keeps getting crazier by the day. I would have to give her views to be able to summarize some of the plethora of “prophetic messages” she posts to YouTube so if it's all the same to our listeners, I'm just going to say go to YouTube, plug in her name, and prepare for some absolutely EPIC facepalming.
Now, this isn't a prophecy, but it goes a long way toward illustrating just what we're dealing with here. Kat Kerr, if I were to be honest, is not unique. She is not the first one of her kind that I have either met or heard about. I've seen this level of crazy before. Multiple times. So what's the difference here? Kat Kerr managed to find an audience. I'm not sure how. I'm not sure why. I'm not sure who was the first person to decide she was worth listening to. All I know is that sometimes chance favors the insane.
“Evangelical 'Prophet' Kat Kerr Says She Won't Get Vaccinated, but Would Have if Trump Won Election.”
This isn't the position of a rational-thinking adult. It's the kind of self-destructive toddler-level reaction to something that my grandmother used to call “cutting your nose off to spite your face.” Here are her own words:
“I may have trusted [the vaccine] when Trump was sitting where the villain fraudulent person is sitting," she said, referring to current Democratic President Joe Biden. "But because they're not, I won't trust it. I don't trust you... I don't know what's in it, I don't know the makeup of it.”
Let's all try to remember that the vaccines were largely developed during the Trump administration and that this was one of his hail mary attempts to sway voters. “A vaccine by the end of the year” was what he promised and kept taking credit for it in an effort to pour just that much more fuel on the fire during his election fraud crusade. But this crazy bitch won't take the vaccine because Trump wasn't allowed to hand-deliver it to her. Pointless and childish. And those are the most redeeming descriptors I can come up with for this.
We looked at a tiny but very visible sample of the people behind this so-called prophetic movement in this episode. There are plenty more of these so-called prophets out there, many leading megachurches and who have specific niche followings, who also parrot the same messaging. And for as many who have backed down at the behest of slightly more intelligent colleagues and cohorts, there are those who will never back down, stop resetting timelines, or making predictions. These people are woefully unoriginal and they prey on the types of people who just keep tuning in, falling for the same cons over and over and over again, and tapping those donate buttons.
The popularity of modern prophets and the ever-lowering of the bar on the definition of a “prophet” is one of the more destructive outgrowths of a religious system that trains its adherents to operate within a framework of unquestioning faith and belief about literally everything.
And when the smoke clears from all the Trump idiocy, I fully expect new vendettas to arise. And when they do, people like Shelle and me will be here to expose all the parallels and provide just one more voice of sanity crying out in the wilderness against the foolish, infantile chicanery that has started – to the chagrin of manyof their own – to define evangelicalism.
The smarter ones among their ranks see failed prophets as a threat, and they should. If I take solace in anything about all this it's that there are still some among the evangelical ranks with enough brains to draw a line in the sand and stay on the opposite side of a “prophetic” movement that is hopelessly corrupt even by the fairytale standards of religion.
As far as I'm concerned, let both sides have the mic. Let the lunatic “prophets” make a complete mockery of their movement and let the world laugh at them, AND let the ones who see through the facade keep bringing as much balance to the force as they can. The former group, though, is destined to always have the louder voice, I think. Steve Taylor said it best: “A Christian can't get equal time unless he's a looney or committing a crime.” People just don't like too much reason with their religion. They never have, they never will.
And this prophecy circus really is like pro wrestling. It's escapist entertainment that appeals to a specific demographic. It elicits emotional responses just like sports and it is able to capture and hold people's attention virtually indefinitely. These people aren't wrong. They just haven't correctly interpreted God's message yet. Trump will be back in office on Jan. 20. It'll happen in April. It'll happen in June... if she needed to, Scheherazade could have kept the story going indefinitely and so can these people. And while they'll always have detractors, they'll also always have followers.
This is also why Shelle and I are here, and why we, along with a growing list of atheist content creators, thought leaders, and influencers will always be there to provide the point/counterpoint when their stupid is showing. Be encouraged by the fact that no matter how loud their voices may seem, these hopelessly useless prophets are still a minority and they're a laughing stock. If it weren't so, they wouldn't be getting disavowed by their own assumed allies, and they are. They're an embarrassment to their own “movement” and secular voices from atheist podcasts to national news outlets are making sure the world sees them for what they are.
And if we keep using our voices, if we keep the truth at the forefront of our comments and conversations, reason WILL prevail. Even if it's only to the extent that this sort of juvenile posturing becomes irreparably stigmatized from within the evangelical ranks. No, I don't think we can take down an entire religion by exposing and laughing at false prophets, but if we stay visible and stay vocal, it might motivate others to follow us, and that could lead to more people getting and staying unbound.
I have two stories as usual tonight and because I found a third, we get a bonus story.
First up, Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy and devoted Trump stan, says that Donald Trump will be in office by fall....really! I guess August was too soon, which was his last prediction.
He was speaking at “The Health and Freedom Conference” in Tampa Florida which is also part of the Reopen America tour. The conference features such august speakers as Gen. Michael Flynn, Judy Mikovits, Sherry Tenpenny, Mark Burns, Greg Locke and many others, a true cavalcade of election, COVID-19, and QAnon conspiracy theorists.
Sometimes, I really feel sorry for Mike Lindell. He just seems so enthusiastic and he tries so hard but just never really hits the mark. He has worked relentlessly and fruitlessly to prove that the 2020 election was a fraud. He's released multiple “documentaries” to try and prove this. His determination to prove these things would be kind of inspiring if it weren't so sad and disconnected from reality.
He told the crowds over the weekend that he would be holding a “cyber symposium” where the “cyber guys” will totally prove that the election was a fraud. Really. He totally promises. Here's a small sample of his speech:
“We’re bringing in all the cyber guys,” he continued. “They’re gonna be there. Then we’re bringing all the media. Maybe even Fox will show up! What a concept. And then we’re going to bring in all senators, governors—even the corrupt ones, Brian Kemp—and legislatures, secretary of states, and every single government official that wants to be there, because when we show them these packet captures, we’re gonna just give them out to all them cyber guys so they can have their own guy go, ‘How many votes were flipped here in Tampa?’ Here you go. Boom. It’s going to be a worldwide event. Millions are going to see it, and those Supreme Court justices are going to look at it then, and they’re going to go 9-0 that this country was attacked. The election is gonna come down. Donald Trump will be in office by this fall, for sure.”
That might be difficult since the Supreme Court will be in recess from late June until...sometime in October. But it's gonna happen. Totally.
And, once again, my favorite grifter Jim Bakker is back at it again. It seems he needs money to keep his ministry afloat so if you send him $500, he'll send you...a mug and blankie. You can, of course, buy the mug for a mere $15 at the ministry's online store but that blanket is not available anywhere else sooo....
I'm sure you can find a comparable blanket without the PTL logo at Big Lots, seriously. Here's Bakker's plea:
I’m asking everyone who’d say ‘Jim, I’m going to stand with you. We’re going to beat the devil back. We’re going to beat him back into hell where he belongs.’ I mean the massiveness of what God is doing through the ministry is so unbelievable, that I just know if everyone gives, we’re going to make it through this. It’s going to grow and grow and grow…if you can give $1000 do it. If you can give the $100 offering, you can do that. If anyone is still with, the special PTL blanket, you can ask for it, and we’ll be able to send that to you as well, and the cup you’ll get the PTL Prophets Profits mug. Call me right now, would you? We need help...
Of course the reason his ministry is hurting for money is because he peddled fake VD and Coronavirus cures and was shut down by the courts. And then Visa and MasterCard cut him off, making it very hard to take in money. In April he stated that he may have to declare bankruptcy. He's like a batman villain, never gets that crime doesn't pay.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. You can always count on three things: death, taxes, and christian men trying to control everything women do, including choosing their clothes. Matthew West, a much-praised christian musician, has released a new song called “Modest is Hottest.”
Thank you to Friendly Atheist for publishing the lyrics, because I do NOT want to watch this video. I did see the thumbnail and...I highly recommend seeing the thumbnail to the video because not only does the guy have the most punchable face ever, but his younger daughter is looking at him like “what the fuck, dad??”
As everyone except matthew west probably guessed, this song has earned a lot of backlash on TikTok and other social media.
“Some people understand that the song is supposed to be a “light-hearted take on an age-old struggle”, as Matthew himself wrote on Twitter, and have been laughing about the song. However, others have questioned whether the song is actually a joke, arguing that women should not be demonised for wearing revealing clothes, dancing on TikTok and talking to boys. “Now what in the misogyny is this?” one person commented. Another said: “The instant nausea that went through my body.” “There are so many things wrong with this,” a third person added.
To really understand the backlash, here is a small random sampling of the lyrics:
Dear daughter, it's me your father I think it's time we had a talk The boys are coming round 'cause you're beautiful And it's all your mother's fault ... If I catching you doing dances on the TikTok In a crop top, so help me God You'll be grounded till the world stops I'm just kidding, no I'm not
'Cause modest is hottest, the latest fashion trend Is a little more Amish, a little less Kardashian What the boys really love is a turtleneck and a sensible pair of slacks Honey, modest is hottest, sincerely, your dad
… So, what I'm hearing is that your girls need to be wearing more clothes because 'the boys are coming round' and...what? What are you afraid of? If you're doing a halfway decent job of parenting, your girls know how to handle themselves. And despite what your pastor might tell you, it makes no difference what a women or girl is wearing when they get assaulted.
Matthew West deserves every bit of criticism he's getting right now. As one Twitter user said, “If my husband sang something like this to our children, it would be the last day he was my husband.”